We’re .NET developers: Do we really care about Cross Platform?

With the advent of Azure, it seems like the (cheaper) hosting on Linux arguments have started losing ground. The primary development environment, Visual Studio, doesn’t seem likely to make the leap, so why do we bother? Does it matter when we can often guarantee that our code will be deployed on Windows? Or can we guarantee that? I wonder what percentage of devs write and test on Windows environments and then deploy to Linux to save money? And what percentage dev and deploy in Linux environments?

I absolutely do, for several reasons. As Robert mentioned the "cheap hosting" argument isn't really a big one these days, but there is some value to spinning up instances of Digital Ocean droplets at $5 a month for extra power or redundancy. The biggest reason I care is because I see a very clear win-win. Linux is huge and frankly still runs most of the internet. This is a great inroad to that world. Traditional Linux developers are starting to take a look at vNext, just because it's something new and cool to try out, and they're liking it. Linux people trying out ASP/vNext and Windows people trying out Linux? This is a good thing for everyone. C# is a fantastic language, and once developers start to use it, most will fall in love. This gives C# and .Net both better permeation into the market and brings other traditionally OSS developers into the .Net world. There is also the idea that you can start busting out some small C# apps on your Linux server that's already doing tons of stuff. Choice is always good. We are getting more choices. Not to mention at this point its the only chance of survival for Microsoft. They would be close to finished in 10 years if they kept ignoring this. This is why I care about cross platform stuff.

I prefer to develop on linux than any other OS. ASP.Net/vNext cross platform support is the best news I've heard in a long while. Also - Docker!

That's exactly the sort of response I was hoping for @JeremyCMorgan ! Seeing the people care about this stuff, and more particularly "why" is going to help spread the word further, but with purpose. That's mostly the reason for starting this discussion in the first place. I can't count the number of developers I see who walk around with blinkers on completely ignoring the possibilities of Cross Platform. It feels very much the same as dragging WinForms devs into the MVC or Web API world and further - now with vNext on the horizon they need to catch up even quicker. You throw the Cross Platform angle at them and they all but curl up into a ball. I think it's important that the message is driven home that this is not a scary thing at all, it's a MASSIVE win-win, but education is necessary, and I think that starts in the community with backup from the vendor. I'm hoping we get some more MVPs in here to talk about the merits and potential - you're right Jeremy, it really is the future!

I for sure care about multi-platform. There is a ton of stuff that just works better on Linux than on Windows. It would be really nice to be able to have access to that technology right out the gate. Remember when nodejs and redis didn't run on Windows? With cross platform .net we could develop against these much earlier on. I spent about 4 years working with Linux, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, FreeBSD and even ZOS(ugh). Some of them have huge technological advantages over Windows. No matter what powershell does it still doesn't have the historical weight of something like bash. How awesome will it be to be able to make use of ZFS in tandem with C#? It does mean that we, as developers, need to know even more than before but that's what we get paid for.

I third the DigitalOcean argument, but also Apache is far superior to IIS for configuration and general ease of use, and of course bash is years ahead of anything Microsoft offer, even with Powershell.

If what @yetanotherchris says is true, and Linux is a much more compelling and efficient environment to develop and deploy in, why the compulsion to use .NET? Why not Java or Rails or any other combo of frameworks that have been supported natively much, much longer? What does .NET bring to the party on Linux given that _most_ .NET devs started out on Windows at one time or another?

The Scotts (Hanselman / Hunter) made a really good point during their dotnetconf session this morning. Cross platform is important in the context of university or other classes. Today, an instructor can't teach ASP.NET as a web platform because a bunch of the students might not be running Windows. With a light weight & cross platform version of ASP.NET, the .NET framework has a much better chance of being a part of the curriculum.

Cross platform is a win no matter how you slice it. I love all three major OS platforms, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Bringing .NET X-plat is all upside. Is it going to create a surge of ASP.NET sites hosted on *nix servers? No. However, it does extend the available options for .NET devs, and also for those in the *nix environment. It does afford the potential to work in my preferred web development environment (ASP.NET/MVC/Web API) and yet spin up my site on a Linux server. For some deployments, this could be a real cost savings, or simply a convenience. And as @JeremyCMorgan says, it brings to Linux all that .NET has to offer. Beyond that, I think it represents a simple show of goodwill/good faith on MS' part. Are they still a bottom-line-driven corporation? You bet. But for too long the us-vs-them mentality has persisted on both sides of the OSS?Linux/MS divide. Hopefully, making the tools and the framework X-plat, and engaging the larger OSS community will help encourage diversity for both sides. God forbid some of the .NET haters out there take a chance, try it out, and discover some of what it has to offer, simply because they can now do so on their chosen platform. The direction the wind is blowing has been clear for a number of years, and MS has needed to broaden the availability and access of the tools and framework in order to ensure a seat at the table in the next decade. They are making all the right moves, including making the framework cross-platform, making VS Pro available as a "community" edition, and encouraging participation and angeagement in the broader developer community. Support for third-party OSS libraries, and supporting OSS projects. Hopefully it's not too little, too late. C#/.NET and all that comes with it gains by growing out of its insular "enterprise" shell and joining the community. In fact, one wonders where the .NET community would be if some of these moves had been made 5 or ten years ago? As developers, we in .NET land tend to get very dogmatic, and it pays for us to experience integration with other platforms. I swear, working on *nix (I'm not awesome, but I'm getting there) and with Node.js has changed and improved the way I approach my C# code. And vice-versa. I love .NET. I love Wondows. I Love *nix. I love that I will be able to mix and match. It's about time.

I think it's interesting @xivSolutions that you say you don't think it will lead to actual increase of deployments to _nix servers_. Why do you think that is? Surely folks would want to reap the rewards of faster code running on cheaper infrastructure if is was as easy as painting in the lines?

For me, cross-platform has been using Xamarin to do Android and iOS apps with the .NET stack. I use Linux, but as a tool, not a target to write .NET code for. While I have written for Android using Java and technically I could write for iOS with Obj-C (or Swift), I'm much more productive staying within the .NET stack and using the tools that I am comfortable with.

Some people don't like the high cost of the Xamarin tools. It's priced for enterprise development, not for the hobbyist. That part is better now than a year ago, but we debated it before we bought our licenses. And we have had no regrets with that. It also competes with the 80 different variations of Cordovo, including the one that MS has for Visual Studio. You can do very good apps with Cordova, but I think you are more likely to get great apps when you go native.

I guess as this plays out it will expand the developer pool and it will give us more options for hosting. I've stayed in my little Microsoft bubble for too long. Expanding my horizons with packages like npm, grunt, bower, alternative editors, less and all these sorts of technologies has been a rewarding experience for me recently. I've even set up and been using an Ubuntu VM to get some more experience. I suppose another positive about the cross platform will be opening it up for makers and IoT to get in there on low spec hardware.

One thing I'm not seeing in this discussion is the SQL story that goes along with it. I haven't really seen anything from EF, are they going to be doing a MySQL provider for it? Without a DB behind it the .net deployments on other platforms aren't going to be up to much. You can pick up crazy cheap hosting packages, but (in the UK market at least) the cost blows up considerably when you want a SQL Server db alongside it. The hosts always hide behind the claim they are passing on licensing costs but not sure what the true story is. If I get a VM then I can install a SQL Server Express and do as many databases as I want so I don't know if it's just that they aren't allowed to package SQL Server Express DB's or if they just prefer to take the cut from selling a full strength SQL Server.

I was about to scream and shout... but then realize people pretty much made every comment I was going to scream about. x-plat is fundamental. I left .NET entirely because of Windows, I'm partially back into F# and a little C# solely because I can get things done with those languages without Windows. IF people want to pay for it, that's cool, whatever, but I'm perfectly happy and super productive on OS-X & Linux and love that I can really get at two of my favorite languages on those operating systems now. So rock n' roll all day with the x-plat! :)