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A Serious Challenge for Open Source?

. . . what Mindscape has done is really quite impressive. To evaluate, accept, and incorporate feedback that quickly into the product and to have the installer ready that afternoon is impressive – for anyone.

13 comments

With all respect to Chris Cyvas, why did you remove my comment to your (tiny) article?

I could have understand that if you would at least responded to my e-mail or if I have been rude in commenting there...
I've just expressed my short (personal) oppinion about the whole thing on OR/M market in .NET world and I was comparing Lightspeed to NHibernate from 10 000 feet height in about 10 sentences, as I've been doing OR/M research and its usage quite a while for our company...

Chris Cyvas has his personal page, and everything (even comments) belong to it, so be it.
But "funny" thing is, it happened to me with mindscape product again. Whenever me or my collegues "hit" mindscape lightspeed topic (even commenting on their homesite), their comments are either deleted or not published at all (without any e-mail response even when requested) when any competition is mentioned (and we all know it is there).
Probably I should only write how excellent lightpeed is (which, to be honest, I think is true) as that are the comments fully present on their homepage.

And now I've done some research here on DNK (neutral ground) with "lightspeed tagged articles" and their comments, and I see...that this is quite "normal"...mindscape crowd "kicking" their own stories and behaving, well, not quite all-right, see for yourself...

I like lightspeed OR/M, I really do (and advice anyone to look at it more, as it is not as expensive, you need to pay just per project not per developer and it is very easy to use and show to your co-devels) but this was enough to make me an final oppinion on mindscape company whether they were involved with Chris in some way or not (conspiracy...boooo).
I just don't like they can't face the competition that is there...although I am kicking article as I want lightspeed to become more popular (so I can persuade bosses to use it one time).

As I have written in my (censored) comment - for our company we were considering either NHibernate 2.0 or Lightspeed (for many reasons Subsonic, LINQ to SQL or LLBLGEN fell out of considaration, Entity Spaces is what we are looking at now) but I better go with the community that I like and is more "open" to critisism (look on ayende defending of NHibernate in his comparison to Subsonic)...

btw my 1st (and very long) comment so greetings to the dotnetkicks community. I've been here for a while but never feel like I have to register...

cowgaR

I haven't approved or unapproved any comments yet - they are in a queue for me to read when I get home. :)

Good luck with Lightspeed. Perhaps it will "scale to millions of records" as you need it to LOL.

Sorry dudes, but we don't delete comments either. @cowgaR what are you going on about? Please give an example of a comment we have "deleted"

@Mike, that's because your blog doesn't allow comments! LOL

http://www.entityspaces.net/blog

<i>I haven't approved or unapproved any comments yet - they are in a queue for me to read when I get home. :)</i>
ok so call me "mindscape piss off" but I am sure it was there for a while (as I _think_ friend read it on nearby computer not devel machine) but maybe I had a bad day and did not notice any comment queue when posting...but I am 90% sure I fired another browser (w/o cookies) and still saw it on your site somehow...

I may be wrong of course so forget my 1st comment then.

Rob, you better continue with your 100 pushups challenge, don't forget for proper warmup before doing your weekly tasks and a good stretching after that ;P
btw I'll look on Subsonic for .NET 3.5 with LINQ provider (which your query language needs) - it could be nice if you finally figure how to finish it ;)
and I wouldn't use Subsonic for gazillion tables aswell (as any other ORM in that case), btw are we all building mission - MARS - critical applications?

Andrew, happened for example to my friend when he talked about Entity Framework couple of months ago, whos comment you could leave on your homepage - as it turned out EF from Microsoft is more a disaster than a breakthrough in OR/M they were trying to accomplish (again personal oppinion), but who knows...

Mike, I really like MONO support, and would like many other projects to support it...it can "solve" performance problems by investing into hardware than to tens of Windows Server 2008 licences hehe

@cowgaR, I'm a little confused about your comment regarding us not liking questions about the competition. We always answer those queries and our forums should show that. If, for whatever reason, you believe you have asked a question and not had it answered then I can assure you it's not from us stonewalling any mention of competitors. In fact, we generally encourage questions regarding our competitors because often it makes us look even better however we're also honest when we believe an alternative will better suit a customer - it's simply not worth letting somebody down and the support cost of trying to push a square peg into a round hole just to get a sale. I'm sure many of our competitors operate in a similar manner.

I think we deleted one spam link, once, to a competitors website but that was for one of our WPF products, not LightSpeed.

I kicked the post on Chris's blog because it already had one kick, I thought he had a good point, and yes - it was positive about us. I don't think that should surprise anyone, surely?

Most LightSpeed related posts on DNK come from our blog, we do post DNK links on the bottom and many of our subscribers kick them when they see them. I've had this discussion before, it's hardly a fault of our own if our users like what we write and kick it but it happens. I suggested last time this was noticed that perhaps it would be wise to implement an improved ranking system for what makes the homepage or boost the kick count required.

@robconery I'm not sure what your comment is entirely in reference to but my guess would be to the dashCommerce product and its need to scale. Given LightSpeed has been implemented in some very very large systems (thousands of tables, millions of rows) and performs exceedingly well (including being one of a couple of O/R Mappers that passes Mats Challenge) I'm sure you're not calling out our ability to scale! Your comment comes across somewhat condescending - just because he didn't rate Subsonic is no need to be impolite. I suggest you establish how you could improve, make the changes and repeat rather than being rude.

John-Daniel Trask
Co-Founder
Mindscape

to mindscape, my appologies and my last comment here as I don't want to flame.

I never said anything against lightspeed (as I agree with article), I've just personally (somehow) got wrong oppinion on marketing side of thing (seems happening only here, google research really isn't helping in any comparison), we all make mistakes...

but then again, I would like to see words like iBabtis, Subsonic, NHibernate, LLBLGEN etc. written all over your comments on Lightspeed homepage (not only in forums), but that probably comes with popularity and so far there are few comments...

So far I haven't found one, but I am sure you will find some and show me ;P

then again, it is quite stupid to point to competition on your homepage when you are trying to sell something...I guess I just don't like marketing but I feel lightspeed should not be afraid anyone;)

Good luck with your Lightspeed project and as a "challenge" I would advice mindscape people to "rewrite" Rob's Storefront project to use Lightspeed instead of LINQ to SQL...and see what it brings...I think there was even a call for people to do it (NHibernate etc..) in some part.

Rob, peace, I love your blog and your sarcastic humor even more...

@John-Daniel...
I'm a well seasoned vet, Technical Evangelist, and while I have not tested LightSpeed I've heard nothing but good reports about it.
Even watched a very cool video a while back.
You guys appear to be doing an awesome job. Congrats. ;-)

@traskjd I am sure Rob will clear it up later but I am guessing his scalability comment was a sarcastic jab at Chris rather than anything to do with LightSpeed. Chris voiced concerns over Subsonic's scability and performance in a thread on the dashCommerce website. I think they were throwaway comments to be honest as there was no evidence that SubSonic was causing any performance issues with dashCommerce or any other large scale application.

I have developed a similar application to dashCommerce that uses Subsonic, and has over 4 million products - it scales effortlessly.

Hi John - couple of thoughts...

1) My comment was relating to Chris's forum post wherein he made the claim that SubSonic couldn't scale. In no way was my comment directed at LightSpeed - mad props to you guys and apologies for the inference

2) That said I think you know very well that I wasn't taking a jab at you :p and I have to say you guys do a really annoying job at swarming the communities out there. 24 kicks indeed...

Nothing but respect for your product... I loathe your marketing though.

Oh wow. I love the tags on this DNK article one!!!!

oops... that's supposed to say I love the tags on the DNK article.

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